Saturday Panels
April 16, 2005


8:00 Registration

Ballroom Foyer
Coffee and pastries


8:30-8:50 Welcome and introduction

Introductory comments (Ballroom B). Mentoring sessions (Edison, Winter Garden, Brooks Atkinson rooms), the Barnes & Noble Bookfair (Ballroom E) and the Idea Marketplace (Ballroom E) will run continuously throughout the day.


9:10-10:10

Track: Breaking into Print
Panel #01 Finding Great Ideas: Mining Your Life
Carnegie Hall/Alvin

How to generate great story ideas using your life as a springboard.

Moderator: Dorothy Foltz-Gray, ASJA, contributing editor, Health, Alternative Medicine, and Arthritis Today; contributor to Cooking Light, Fitness, Good Housekeeping, O, Organic Style, Reader's Digest, Real Simple, Self.

Lisa Davis, deputy editor, Health Magazine

Paula Spencer, ASJA, contributing editor at Woman's Day, Parenting, Baby Talk; contributor to USA Weekend, New York Post, Body & Soul, Family Life, others

Gini Kopecky Wallace, senior editor, Family Circle

Stephanie Young, health director, More Magazine

Track: Business of Writing
Panel #02 Long-Term Career Building, A Two-Part Panel
Broadway

Part 1: Creating a Career Plan

Participants are invited to attend each panel individually, or both.

Want to take your writing career to the next level? Got a dream publication or a special book project you want to make happen? Success is not luck or happenstance. It starts with a plan. This panel offers concrete tips for building a writing career plan that will work for you.

Moderator: Andrea King Collier, ASJA, author, Still With Me: A Daughter's Journey of Love and Loss, contributor to Cooking Light, More, Ladies’ Home Journal, Real, The Washington Post.

Jenny Bent, literary agent, Trident Media Group

Leslie Levine, ASJA, author of Will this Place Ever Feel Like Home?; Ice Cream For Breakfast; Wish It, Dream It, Do It.

Brian O'Connell, ASJA, author of The 401(k) Millionaire, Generation E, CNBC'S Guide to Creating Wealth, Investing in Separate Accounts, The Career Survival Guide, and Build Your own Mutual Fund. Contributor to The Wall Street Journal, Newsweek, USA Today, CFO, Business 2.0, CBS News Marketwatch, Bloomberg, NBC's Golf.com, CBS Sportswatch, etc.

Track: All About Books
Panel #03 How to Be Your Own Publicist: What every author needs to know
Uris/Juilliard
Followed by Extra Bonus Session in Executive Boardroom 1401, one floor above Ballroom level

Feeling shy about promoting yourself? Get over it! These days, book sales--and publication deals--depend on how good authors are at getting the word out. Even if you're just at the book idea stage, you need this session since most publishers look for a publicity plan when considering book proposals. Book publicity experts reveal how authors can use proven tactics, from word-of-mouth to the Web, to generate buzz and boost book sales.

Moderator: Leslie Gilbert Elman, ASJA, author of The Ladies' Room Reader Quiz Book, contributor to magazines and newspapers

Peter Costanzo, director of online marketing, Perseus Book Group

Victoria Moran, ASJA, author of ten books, including Younger by the Day: 365 Ways to Rejuvenate Your Body and Revitalize Your Spirit and Creating a Charmed Life.

Fern Reiss, CEO of Expertizing.com/PublishingGame.com, author of the bestselling "Publishing Game" book series

Lissa Warren, senior director of publicity at DaCapo Press and author of The Savvy Author's Guide to Book Publicity

SPECIAL BONUS: Continue the discussion at an in-depth follow-up session from 10:30 to 11:30.

Panel #04 Investigative Techniques in Narrative Nonfiction
Plymouth/Music Box/Morosco

Top authors and agents share the investigative techniques they use to gather information and weave the facts into compelling narratives.

Moderator: Sherry Beck Paprocki,ASJA, contributor to Preservation, Chicago Tribune, Cleveland Plain Dealer Sunday magazine and others; recipient of a grant from the Fund for Investigative Journalism; semi-finalist for the Alicia Patterson Fellowship

David France, author of the best-selling book Our Fathers, a history of the Catholic Church sexual abuse crisis, which has been made into a movie by Showtime for airing in 2005; former Newsweek senior editor for investigations

Sue Russell, ASJA, author of Lethal Intent, a biography of serial killer Aileen Wuornos; contributor to The Washington Post, Daily Telegraph, and others

Jack Scovil, literary agent for more than 30 years, currently with the Scovil Chichak Galen Agency; he has represented Norman Mailer and Carl Sagan; his clients include Edward Klein, James Brady, Walter Anderson, and Bradley Martin.

Barry Yeoman, award-winning freelance journalist for Mother Jones, Discover, Rolling Stone and others; winner of the National Magazine Award for Public Interest in 1990, the SPJ Green Eyeshade award in 1993, and others

Panel #05 Writing Histories and Biographies
Lyceum/Imperial/Booth

Exploring the lives of people and the power of historic events can be fascinating and rewarding for writers and readers alike. This session offers a close-up look at the challenges and rewards of researching and writing about people, places, and events.

Moderator: Daniel Grotta, ASJA, author of J.R.R. Tolkien: Architect of Middle-earth, and six other books, over 1,500 articles, columns, and reviews for a wide variety of magazines

Brendan Cahill, editor, Gotham Books

Penny Colman, ASJA, author of Rosie the Riveter: Women Working on the Home Front in World War II; Corpses, Coffins, and Crypts: A History of Burial, Girls: A History of Growing Up Female in America; Where the Action Was: Women War Correspondents in World War II.

Dan Mandell, literary agent, Sanford J. Greenburger Associates

Audrey Peterson, editor, American Legacy

Steve Weinberg, ASJA, author of The Reporter's Handbook: An Investigator's Guide to Documents and Techniques; Armand Hammer: The Untold Story; and The Untold Story, a book about the craft of biography. He is currently at work on a biography of Ida Tarbell (W.W. Norton, 2006).


10:30-11:30

Track: Breaking Into Print
Panel #06 Finding Great Ideas: Mining the World Around You
Carnegie Hall/Alvin

Ever wonder how a writer uncovered the idea for that great story you just read? Find out how writers have come up with great ideas and how you can find them -- and sell them -- too.

Moderator: Jim Morrison, ASJA, contributor to Smithsonian, New York Times, National Wildlife, Reader's Digest, The Wall Street Journal.

Jeff Garigliano, assistant managing editor, Fortune Small Business

Steve Kemper, ASJA, author of Code Name Ginger: The Story Behind Segway & Dean Kamen's Quest to Invent a New World. Contributor to Smithsonian, National Geographic, Outside, Yankee.

Emily Laber-Warren, executive editor, features, Popular Science.

Florence Williams, ASJA, contributor to Outside, The New York Times, The New Republic, Travel Holiday, National Geographic Traveler, Mother Jones

Track: Business of Writing
Panel #07 Long-Term Career Building, Part 2
Broadway

Working Your Plan

The nuts and bolts of how successful writers breathe life into their plans and make things happen. Hear how goals turn into real projects and discover proven strategies for putting your plans into action.

Moderator: Andrea King Collier, ASJA, author, Still With Me: A Daughter's Journey of Love and Loss, contributor to Cooking Light, More, Ladies’ Home Journal, Real, The Washington Post.

Andrea Kay, ASJA, syndicated columnist and author of Greener Pastures: How to Find a Job in Another Place, Resumes That Will Get You the Job You Want, Interview Strategies That Will Get You the Job You Want, contributor to over 90 publications

Gwen Moran, ASJA, co-author of Build Your Dream Home on a Shoestring and The Complete Idiot's Guide to Writing a Business Plan; columnist, Entrepreneur; contributor to: Woman's Day, Family Circle, USA Weekend, MyBusiness, Family Business, The Chicago Tribune, Ladies' Home Journal

Melba Newsome, ASJA, contributor to O, National Geographic, Smithsonian, Elle, Cosmopolitan, Essence, Marie Claire, Health, Lifetime, American Way, Family Circle, Context, Good Housekeeping, Los Angeles Times Magazine, Delta Sky, The Washingtonian

Salley Shannon, ASJA, contributor to Woman's Day, Working Mother, The Washingtonian, Reader's Digest, Parents, Parenting, Family Circle, Good Housekeeping, Saveur, Fitness, Smithsonian

Track: All About Books
Panel #08 After the First Book
Uris/Juilliard

"So I've published my first book. Now what?" Many authors find their book career in a tailspin after their first published work. Some wait for the world to beat a path to their door for Book #2. Others find themselves wondering where to next turn their attention. This panel helps writers develop a long-term book-writing career by exploring the issues all authors should consider -- whether you’re tackling Book #2 or Book #20.

Moderator: David Kohn, ASJA, co-author, ghostwriter, editor

Vicky Bijur, president, Vicky Bijur Literary Agency

Cathy Crimmins, author of numerous humor books, including her current work, How The Homosexuals Saved Civilization (Tarcher/Penguin). Her book "Where is the Mango Princess?" which won the ASJA Outstanding Book of the Year award, is being filmed for television.

Liza Dawson, president of Liza Dawson Associates, literary agency. Formerly executive editor at Putnam and vice president at William Morrow

Joelle Delbourgo, president, Joelle Delbourgo Associates, literary agency. Formerly senior vice president, editor-in-chief and associate publisher at HarperCollins, Adult Trade Division.

Panel #09 In The Money: Writing about Business & Personal Finance
Plymouth/Music Box/Morosco

Learn what magazine and book business editors really want from freelancers and how to turn your interest and expertise into a successful proposal.

Moderator: Lisa Iannucci, ASJA, USA Weekend, Parenting, Los Angeles Times Travel Section, Weight Watchers, Shape, bankrate.com. Books include Healthy Travel, The Unofficial Guide to Overcoming Arthritis, The Unofficial Guide to Minding Your Money; Birth Defects and others.

Marilyn Allen, founder and partner of the Allen O'Shea Literary Agency

Mike Hofman, executive editor of Inc.

Richard J. Koreto, editor-in-chief of Advising Boomer Magazine and the author of Run It Like a Business: Top Financial Planners Weigh In on Practice Management. Formerly the senior news editor at the Journal of Accountancy and a reporter for online news services.

Russell Wild, ASJA, author or co-author of over a dozen books. Contributor to AARP The Magazine, Reader's Digest, and Consumer Reports, as well as financial trade and in-house publications, including Fidelity and Financial Planning . Financial planner and registered investment advisor based in Allentown, Pa

Panel #10 Behind the Scenes: Parade
Lyceum/Imperial/Booth

For the first time ever, the conference offers an in-depth discussion of a single major national magazine, providing a unique look at Parade, one of America's highest profile magazines.

Moderator: Sally Stich, ASJA, contributor to Parade, Woman's Day, Time, Ladies Home Journal, Parents, Beliefnet.com, others

Dakila Divina, managing editor, Parade

Brenda Goodman, contributor to Parade, Psychology Today, Scientific American, Self, Outside, others

Paula Silverman, associate editor, Parade

Nancy Henderson Wurst, ASJA, contributor to Parade, The New York Times, Woman's Day, Family Circle, Southwest Airlines Spirit, Attache.


12:00 - 1:15 p.m.

Luncheon and Keynote speaker: H.G. (Buzz) Bissinger, Pulitzer Prize-winner and author of A Prayer for the City and the best-selling Friday Night Lights (now a major motion picture).
Ballrooms C & D


1:15-2:00

Visit the Idea Marketplace, meet Buzz Bissinger at a book signing, and spend time networking with your colleagues.


2:00-3:00

Track: Breaking Into Print
Panel #11 Contracts 101
Lyceum/Imperial/Booth

The right contracts language can make or break your income prospects. This session offers an invaluable primer for understanding and negotiating the best contract terms--and making the most from your writing.

Moderator: Lisa Collier Cool, ASJA president, contributor to Family Circle, Glamour, Good Housekeeping, Parents, Readers' Digest, Self, Woman's Day, others; author of How to Write Irresistible Query Letters and other books

Anthony Elia, attorney, David J. Sutton, P.C.; coauthor of Authorlaw A-Z and contributor to the legal column of the ASJA Monthly.

Kirsten Manges, literary agent, Curtis, Brown Ltd; member of the Association of Authors' Representatives contracts committee.

Erik Sherman, ASJA, contributor to The New York Times Magazine, Newsweek, US News & World Report, USA Weekend, Saveur, Technology Review, Chief Executive, Editor & Publisher, CIO Insight, others; author of several books.

Nancy Shepherdson, ASJA, co-author, La Vida Rica: The Latina's Guide to Success, and contributor to LA Times Magazine, Playboy, American Heritage, Woman's Day, and Boys' Life.

SPECIAL BONUS: Contracts experts will be available throughout the day for one-on-one consultations to answer your questions

Track: Business of Writing
Panel #12 Secrets of Power Pitchers
Broadway

Successful writers tell how to get editors' attention and boost your odds of an assignment every time

Moderator: Greg Daugherty, ASJA, author, You Can Write for Magazines; former editor-in-chief, Reader's Digest New Choices

Cynthia Barnes, ASJA, contributor to National Geographic, Slate, Salon, Continental, Better Homes & Gardens, Endless Vacation, Premiere

Dan Drollette, ASJA, contributor to Science, Scientific American, National Wildlife, Technology Review

Sally Stich, ASJA, contributor to Parade, Woman's Day, Time, Ladies Home Journal, Parents, Beliefnet.com, others

Sharon McDonnell, ASJA, contributor to New York Times, American Way, Specialty Travel Index, The Writer, American Spirit, Luxury Living

Track: All About Books
Panel #13 Writing for the Long Haul
Plymouth/Music Box/Morosco

A discussion of what it takes to research, report, organize and structure a book-length work of nonfiction.

Moderator: John Rosengren, ASJA, author of Blades of Glory: The True Story of a Young Team Bred to Win, contributor to Reader's Digest, Sports Illustrated, Self, Men's Health, more.

Sheri Fink, award-winning author of War Hospital: A True Story of Surgery and Survival, and contributor to Discover, Diversions, The New York Times, The Washington Post, others.

Caitlin Kelly, ASJA, author of Blown Away: American Women and Guns

Shelly Mehlman Dinhofer, ASJA, is the author of The Art of Baseball:The Great American Game in Painting, Sculpture and Folk Art, and contributes to Harper's Bazaar, France Insiders News, TWA Ambassador, l'Ettichetta, and others.

Daniel Wilkinson, author of Silence on the Mountain: Stories of Terror, Betrayal and Forgetting in Guatemala.

Panel #14 Anatomy of a Bestseller
Carnegie Hall/Alvin

Hear bestselling author Buzz Bissinger discuss the rise - and recent return - to the bestseller lists of his classic account of small-town life.

Moderator: Jack El-Hai, executive vice president of ASJA; author of The Lobotomist: A Maverick Medical Genius and His Tragic Quest to Rid the World of Mental Illness

H.G. "Buzz" Bissinger, Pulitzer Prize-winning author of the best-selling Friday Night Lights: A Town, a Team, and a Dream. Bissinger has authored two other books and written for Vanity Fair, Sports Illustrated and many others.

George Gibson, president and publisher, Walker & Company; formerly publicist for Friday Night Lights.

Jane Isay, freelance editor, editor of Friday Night Lights.

John Radziewicz, publisher, Da Capo Press, current publisher of Friday Night Lights.

Panel #15 Facts About Fiction
Uris/Juilliard

Honest info from fiction experts cuts through the mystery of writing and selling fiction.

Moderator: Maxine Rock, ASJA. author of nine nonfiction books and over 1,000 magazine and newspaper articles, in local and national publications. At work on her first novel, agented by Michael Bourret.

Michael Bourret, literary agent, Dystel & Goderich Literary Management.

Michael Mezzo, editor, Little, Brown.

Julie Saltman, editor, Plume.

Kathryn Lance, ASJA, author of 50 fiction and nonfiction books, creative-writing instructor at New York University and The University of Arizona


3:20-4:20

Track: Breaking Into Print
Panel #16 The Power of Profiles
Uris/Juilliard

Profiles are a great way to break into a broad variety of publications. This panel will give you the inside scoop from editors and writers about how to find the right profiles for different markets -- from in-flights, to women's and parenting, to custom publications. You'll also learn how to approach potential subjects, how to handle interviews, and how to make the sale.

Moderator: Jennifer Haupt, ASJA, has written profiles for Ladies' Home Journal, Family Circle, Woman's Day, Lifetime, AARP: The Magazine, Entrepreneur and numerous airline in-flight publications.

Ken Beaulieu, editorial director, Pohly & Partners (Custom publications)

Nancy Bilyeau, articles editor, Ladies’ Home Journal

Bethanne Kelly Patrick, ASJA, editor, America Online Books & First Reads; editor at large, PAGES, 2001-2004; author of numerous written profiles for the above and other publications over the past five years.

Sherry Suib Cohen, ASJA, contributor to Lifetime, Family Circle, Ladies’ Home Journal, Parents, Parade, Reader's Digest, Redbook, Good Housekeeping, New York Times, Seventeen, others

Track: Business of Writing
Panel #17 The Six-Figure Freelancer
Broadway
Followed by Extra Bonus Session in Executive Boardroom 1401, one floor above Ballroom level

Techniques to increase your earnings and make a six figure income (or at least a comfortable living!) as a writer.

Moderator: Kelly James-Enger, ASJA, is the author of 6 books including Six-Figure Freelancing: The Writer's Guide to Making More Money.

Pat Curry, contributor to USA Weekend, Consumers Digest, Working Mother, Pages, REAL, American Profile, Smart Business, Emerging Business, Builder, Big Builder, Industry Week, Bankrate.com

Debra Gordon, contributor to Family Circle, Better Homes & Gardens, Get Up and Go, Builder Magazine, and Parents, and such corporate clients as National Women's Health Resource Center, the American Psychological Association, and various pharmaceutical companies.

Robert McGarvey, ASJA, contributing editor, American Way; Contributing writer, Selling Power; advertorials written for Harvard Business Review, Fortune, NY Times.

Julie Sturgeon, contributor to Bankrate.com, Today's Image, Builder, Pool & Spa News, HR Executive, College Planning and Management, Independent Banker, District Administration, Replacement Contractor and Pages.

SPECIAL BONUS: Continue the discussion at an in-depth follow-up session from 4:40 to 5:40.

Track: All About Books
Panel #18 Working Together: The Inside Scoop on Collaboration or Ghost writing
Plymouth/Music Box/Morosco

Top book editors, a major literary agent and two much published authors tell you how to make money with other people's ideas.

Moderator: W. Terry Whalin, ASJA, author of 63 books and more than a dozen collaborated and ghostwritten books including Running On Ice by Vonetta Flowers.

Farley Chase, literary agent with the The Waxman Literary Agency

Brenda Copeland, senior editor at Atria Books, a division of Simon and Schuster.

Kate Kelly, ASJA, author of more than 25 books, many of them collaborations, including HyperWars, Money Makeovers, Before It Happens to You: A Breakthrough Program for Reversing or Preventing Heart Disease, and the bestselling Organize Yourself!

Zachary Schisgal, senior editor at Rodale Books

Panel #19 Smarter Surfing, a Two-Part Session
Carnegie Hall/Alvin

Participants are invited to attend each session individually, or both.

Part 1

For beginners or experts, this fast-paced, entertaining program will help you learn how to save time and become more productive in your online research and in using other Internet resources. You’ll get a quick tour of Internet sites and search techniques that will transform your researching immediately.

Moderator: Tim Harper, ASJA, editor of the ASJA Guide to Freelance Writing

Sree Sreenivasan, Professor, Columbia University Graduate School of Journalism, ABC's Tech Guru

Panel #20 Getting Past Rejection
Lyceum/Imperial/Booth

An author, agent, editor and psychologist discuss the writer's fear of rejection and how to overcome this potentially debilitating obstacle to writing.

Moderator: Barbara DeMarco-Barrett, ASJA, author of the LA Times bestseller Pen on Fire: A Busy Woman's Guide to Igniting the Writer Within; host of "Writers on Writing" on KUCI-FM, Orange County, CA.

Debbie Danowski, ASJA, author of three books including The Overeater¹s Journal: Exercises for Heart, Mind, and Soul, assistant professor of English and Media Studies at Sacred Heart University in Fairfield, CT.

David Grand, Ph.D. author of Emotional Healing at Warp Speed: The Power of EMDR

Andrea Schulz, senior editor, Harcourt, Inc. Formerly at at Princeton University Press, Ballantine Books, and Da Capo Press

Joy Tutela, literary agent with the David Black Agency.


4:40-5:40

Track: Breaking Into Print
Panel #21 Making Your First National Sale
Pymouth/Music Box/Morosco

Editors from national magazines, and an experienced magazine writer, spill the secrets to getting that first assignment from a national publication.

Moderator: Kathy Sena, ASJA; contributor to Woman’s Day, Family Circle, Child, USA Today, New York Times Syndicate, Tribune Media, Los Angeles Times, others

Karen Hammond, ASJA; contributor to Family Circle, Woman's Day, The American Lawyer, Runner's World, Boston Globe, Miami Herald, Columbus Dispatch, others; former university journalism instructor

Jeff Nowak, editor, Backyard Living

Jennifer Rainey, health editor, Women's Day Magazine

Karen Westerberg Reyes, planning editor, AARP The Magazine

Track: Business of Writing
Panel #22 The No-Query Approach to Freelance Success: Networking
Broadway

Fed up with hit-or-miss querying? Learn the most-effective techniques for approaching editors and building long-lasting relationships.

Moderator: Denise DiFulco, ASJA, contributor to Ladies' Home Journal, Working Mother, Latina, The New York Times, The Washington Post

Chandra Czape, deputy editor, CosmoGIRL!, founder and president of Ed2010.com

Sam Greengard, past president, ASJA, contributor to American Way, Arrive, Business, Finance, Hemispheres, iQ, The Ritz Carlton Workforce Management, others

Debra Immergut, features editor, Parents; editor-in-chief, Parents Baby

Jennifer Pirtle, ASJA, contributor to Alternative Medicine, Fitness, Hallmark, Health, Ladies' Home Journal, Martha Stewart Living, Martha Stewart Weddings, Runner's World, Self, Woman's Day, Yoga Journal, others

Track: All About Books
Panel #23 Position Your Project: How To Sell Your Book to Editors & Agents
Uris/Juilliard

Participants are assigned roles in a publishing house; they "sell" their manuscripts to the Editorial Board. Along with explaining how publishing works, the workshop helps attendees view their projects through the eyes of an editor or agent. Participants must complete a single-page "tip sheet" on site for review and discussion.

Moderator: Sandra Gurvis, ASJA, author of ten books including the forthcoming Where Have All The Flower Children Gone?. Her novel, The Pipe Dreamers was published in 2001.

Nancy Hancock, senior editor at Simon & Schuster's Touchstone/Fireside; former executive editor at McGraw-Hill

Jeff Kleinman, literary agent and attorney with an emphasis on health, parenting, aging, nature, pets, how-to, travel, as well as narrative nonfiction with a historical bent.

Panel #24 Smarter Surfing, a Two-Part Session (see #19 above)
Carnegie Hall/Alvin

Participants are invited to attend either session individually, or both.

Panel #25 Crafting Award-Worthy Articles
Lyceum/Imperial/Booth

Prize-winning writers share techniques for creating stories that are compelling, powerfully-written and well-researched.

Moderator: Rebecca Skloot, ASJA, author of HeLa: The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks, contributor to Popular Science and The New York Times Magazine, among others. She is vice-president of the National Book Critics Circle.

Katha Pollitt is an award-winning essayist and poet whose work appears regularly in The Nation. Her 1992 essay, "Why We Read: Canon to the Right" won the National Magazine Award. She has also won the Whiting Foundation Writing Award, and has been the recipient of a National Endowment for the Arts grant and a Guggenheim Fellowship. Her essays have also appeared in The New Yorker, The Atlantic, The New Republic, Harper;s and The New York Times.

Steve Rushin, a senior writer at Sports Illustrated, has been nominated for three National Magazine Awards and won the award for best "leisure interests" piece in 2002 for his Sports Illustrated article, "Ring Tossed."

Penny Wolfson, winner of the 2002 American Society of Magazine Editors Best Feature award for her Atlantic Monthly article, "Moonrise," which describes her teenage son Ansel's battle with muscular dystrophy. Wolfson is also the author of Moonrise: One Family, Genetic Identity, and Muscular Dystrophy. Her work has appeared in The Atlantic, Good Housekeeping, The New York Times, and Best American Essays, 2002.


All Day

Visit the LexisNexis Tech Center in the Belasco-Broadhurst room and try out the new LexisNexis AlaCarte search engine, check your e-mail, and surf the Internet.


5:40 - 7:00 p.m.

Reception: Sponsored by Levenger, maker of fine gifts for writers and readers. Chat with other writers and editors in a congenial, relaxed atmosphere in the Manhattan Ballroom. Drawing for raffle prizes from Levenger and others.